Thanks Jon for the detailed answer! Yes I fully understand. Maybe one point on the other promised functionality there is that one about USB audio that I understand might be seen as important, but can be worked around quite easily. This bad tempo timing cannot be worked around. And there is also something like embedded promises by the content of the product: lots of synth, arps, drums plugins but not syncable like any even basic device on the market.
That might influence priority settings for your limited resources.
Anyway continue the good work and make sure your company stays financially healthy for the good of us all !
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Thanks for the feedback and noted.
I used this as an example. The MOD Dwarf was disclosed on Kickstarter including this feature. Some backers supported it because of that. So somehow we are already late on the delivery of that. But again, I used that as an example.
Moreover, the platform (as well as the code) is mostly open. We are pretty available to support the community in parallel projects that help to improve the platform (this is actually one of the best things to bypass our lack of internal resources). That said, you and anyone reading this post that really takes this or other specific feature as a deal-breaker are more than welcome to join forces and try to help us getting it up and running. We will be totally available to support that “committee” and help as much as we can.
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Hi Jon,
Any news on beat perfect sync for Mod Duo X? Maybe not a prio for Dwarf but definitelly for a desktop unit like the DUO X. I’d really think this should become a top prio for Mod Devices right now even though Dwarf community currently in focus does not ask for it. But with the new looper app, this might become a prio as well for them if they wan to slave their looper to an external master clock.
Please!
Txs,
Luc.
PS: And again, i’d be glad to participate in testing the beat perfect functionality.
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Hello @Luke101,
I’m not the one having or deciding the development roadmap.
I believe that this is planned, but not yet in the roadmap (although I’m not 100% sure).
The problem is that many things need to be a top priority for a lot of different reasons (including the subsistence of the company). Not all for the Dwarf. Actually, the 1.12 that is already in tests on our side is meant to have the MOD DuoX catching up on some features that were released to the Dwarf on 1.11. Besides bug fixes I believe that not much will be new for the Dwarf, while for the DuoX, there will be a catch up on the HMI Widgets (a huge feature in terms of work) that allows for example plugins like Looperlative to become available or for example the separation of the SPDIF port (so you can have 4 outputs on the DuoX) what is fully DuoX related (the MOD Dwarf has no SPDIF).
It’s not that it’s not a priority, is that many things that have been higher on the list take long to develop and we still didn’t get there.
Thanks for that 
we will let you know once there are something on this direction.
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oh, sweet! 
…didn’t know this was in the roadmap!
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Thanks Jon
Like always I’m amazed at how fast you respond … not the answer I’d hope for but I do understand. I rather have you guys healthy and consolidating for future than venturing in all directions.
Keep up the great work!
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Thanks for understanding
On this I would say that you are just lucky 
especially this week I’m taking a bit longer 
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Hi Jon,
Here I am again enquiring about when ModDevice will schedule the now really important improved clock sync. I just purchased the great LP3 looper but here again, not having beat perfect sync is soooo limiting! Even without tempo change, it only stays in sync as long as both clock finaly get out of beat. This is not just having a marginal impact. It does impact EVERY plugins like sequencers, arpegiator, Looper, requiring beat perfect clock to be usable in a normal musical context. May I ask to whom this could be escalated? It does not make sense to have all these plugins without beat perfect sync. On all my Guitar gear from Boss for instance, I does sync beat perfect without ever drifting away even with tempo changes. Please?
Txs,
Luc.
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LP3 has a “MIDI” sync mode, which bypasses the MIDI Clock handling from the host and does it by itself.
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Thanks for the comment. Not sure though how it responds to my question. The purpose of the question is to sync to an external host clock. Do you mean LP3 can sync on its own with an external clock without relying on ModDev clock?
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Yes that is correct.
The MOD “MIDI” sync mode is one implementation that converts MIDI time clock signals into data LV2 plugins can use. LP3 can be set to follow this clock if it is set to host sync mode.
But if you set LP3 to MIDI sync mode, it will bypass the MOD implementation and handle it directly bypassing the host.
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Just tried it… and it works well for now! Perfect sync even with tempo changes! Thanks for the hint. I’ll continue exploring further.
Now if this could be implemented at host level it would be even greater to get all those sequencers and arps in syn as well.
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Current MOD midi implementation does not ensure beat perfect sync hence this forum topic. Apparently the midi sync implemented by LP3 is way better. Not yet fully tested on my side but definitelly usable.
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Problem is, due to how MIDI works, it is just not possible to 100% sync it to a stable clock.
The low speed of MIDI messages means they have jitter, and filtering is needed in order to get things stable.
When plugins handle it themselves internally, they can compensate for it, even ignore parts of the MIDI clock and only deal with specific things they need for internal sync.
Issue comes with trying to map a jittered MIDI signal into a nice and clean, high-precision time information…
That is not to say things can’t be improved on MOD side, they surely can. There is a limit on how much we can push though.
MIDI2 makes the sync more precise, but very few devices are available that use it (needs time, as usual for all new things). MOD does not implement MIDI2 yet anyway.
On the other hand, Ableton Link sync should be a lot more precise. But older stuff does not support it.
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Does this also refer to an external clock? I often use an external clock from Eventide Timfactor or Cirklon. Mod Devices gets the MIDI clock from external and the corresponding plugins I then set to host sync, as I find everything runs well in sync.
As far as I know a stable clock needs a stable quartz. And an operating system always needs time to do calculations which can cause jitter. (As far as I know an Amiga ST was the only computer that had a stable MIDI).
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I disagree with this statement. I have numerous devices perfectly able to stay in perfect beat sync forever with simple old midi implementatin. It is as you said down to how its been implemented by Mod devices and acknowledged by Mod Devices as imperfect right now because focus was set to sync effects like delay or modulation that dont per se need beat perfect sync.
Synching musical parts like sequencers and arpegiators require clock phase to be locked and that is not implemented in Mod Device right now. It currently merely ensure clock rate is synched so that when host is set tp say 120bpm, Mod device follows. This inevitably leads to clock going out of phase due to clock inperfections.
In my studio, I use high end E-rm multiclock as master clock to sync all my gear including: PC with bitwig, Arturia polybrute, Deepmind 12, Keystep pro, Drumbrute, Tetra, Roland VG99 and SY1000, Yamaha Modx8 and all this stays in perfect sync for many hours without missing a beat even when tempo changes on the fly. All this with good old Midi 1.0
So this is not whether ModDevice should or not improve. It is about when.
And I do understand they need to do what is right for them to stay alive. And that might not include beat perfect clock sync for now. So i’m not pushing (well, just a bit). Just asking to implement it as soon as possible for them because a whole bunch of people like me using it in studio context and who believes in their product simply need it to use it as “expected”. So for now, I’m keeping it as a simple effect device on my mixer waiting to use it to its full potential.
Txs for your input. All midi devices have imperfect clock and yet, all my Midi gear stays in perfec sync (see my answer to FalkTx) It is a matter of keeping clock phase synched for all devices no matter how precise their clock is;
I understand what you mean quite well, but do note that there is a big difference from hardware implementation to software implementation.
Things that take precise timing (to / from hardware) are generally harder to do fully in software.
That is mostly what I meant on my previous post.
The main issue is the conversion between pulse signals (that can deviate a little bit from time to time, basically jitter) to a signal that plugins expect to be 100% precise without any deviation.
LV2 plugins talk in bars and beats, not in pulses.
When you have a DAW timeline for example, there is never a case where a plugin receives a beat 1% earlier or later than expected. Maybe when ramping up the tempo, but that is done on purpose, not by accident.
This is not me dismissing the issue, just trying to explain the situation.
There is certainly room for improvement on the current releases.
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I think it was rather an Atari ST. 
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