Looper - Ditto X2


#1

Hello

Is there any lopper similar to for example Ditto X2? I was used to Ditto before and it could be nice to have same/similar possibility with MOD Duo.
Did someone test how it works and how long could be loop?

Regards


#2

Hi Mr Water :wink:

I’m very interested in loopers, and particularly the workflow that musicians (that’s you : ) use with them. I play guitar - but I’m mostly involved in writing audio plugins. I’d like to work on a looper, but to get started we need to really strip down what is essential from the features.

What features are absolutely must have?
How do you control the looper? (MOD doesn’t support “Hold” footswitches - its complicated - so we have to make it work with the two foot pedals available on the DUO.

Looking forward to hearing back from you! -Harry


#3

Hi guys,

a looper actually has the top spot on my wish list, too, and if you don’t mind I throw in my 0.02€.

The basic looper functions are record, undo/redo, stop and erase, right? Maybe a level control would be nice, but this could be done with another pedal. More advanced features like multi-track recording seem to be less relevant as we can just add another simple looper to the pedal board.

Nevertheless: From your plugin developing experience, @harryhaaren , would you think it’d be better to start small and extend the basic function or should we make a “complete” feature list and develop a proper architecture?

Cheers,
Frank


#4

Hi Frank, thanks for the input - your 0.02€ is appreciated!

Outlining what features can/should be on the roadmap helps, and then trimming the ideas down to a bare minimum.

Basic Features:

  1. Record
  2. Undo / Redo (please describe in more detail, what do you mean here?)
  3. Stop
  4. Clear/Erase

Overdub? Is over something we consider of value enough to warrant being on the list?


#5

You guys know that sooperlooper exists, right?
That’s the most basic looper right there. (and already on the MOD)
It does record, play/stop and undo/redo.

During MTF someone also requested an overdub mode.
Might be interesting to do (will have to be an alternative sooperlooper-dub plugin).


#6

Was sooperlooper the same in MOD device than in GNU system?

Synchronisation to any or internal click is also main feature for my use.
Same for “poly-rythmic cycles”: I mean having multiple loop with different beat size.
For example: one loop of 3beats, another for 4beats and another for 5beats: total 3loops, all running with their own cycle, but all synchronised on same click.
So the resulting total cycle of this 3 loops is: 3x4x5=60beats! But there is no tracks during 60 beats, just 3 little loops, synchronised on same click.

But I think just 3 loopers with external click synchronisation will do this without issue, no?


#7

Hi Harry, I guess the most basic looper would just be able to record and re-play one layer. In that case, no undo/redo is needed, but the feature comes in handy if you record multiple layers (like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulyoxdhHrIs). It just means that the last layer can be removed and then recorded again.

Does number four actually exist in the simplest possible case? Woudn’t the current loop simply be deleted when a new one is recorded?

@falkTX : superlooper is fine, but it does not take advantage of the MOD Duo’s features. How would you record a clean rhythm guitar backing track and then solo with distortion over it? Does it synchronise with metronome?

ATM we just philosophize … I suppose. :slight_smile:


#8

What I look for in a looper is the following (I use the JamMan waiting for the right plugin :smiley: ):

  • possibility to set exactly the length of the loop (I play with machines, and I cannot tap the exact rythm by foot, it will not overlap well over time)
  • possibility add layers: record a loop, and decide later on to add something in that loop while it is still playing
  • furthermore if the interface allows it have access to those different layers and stop one / start it back later on…
  • maybe possibility to set the loop length based on a multiplier from a bpm received through MIDI

thanks


#9

I’m really anxious to see the day when @harryhaaren release his looper plugin… I know it’s still too early to even think about a release but if any of the ideas he explained to me in MTF really come to life he just need to tell me where his donate button is…


#10

I would be using multiple loopers… One for each channel and possibly another one on the full output. What I would need is that these loopers are synced to each other. In the past I used to use the Digitech Jamman xt with saved drum loops and I had two Jamman Solo xt synced to it. Bass had it’s own and guitar has it’s own. Each instrument can make their own loops always synced to the main beat or whatever is set as the master.


#11

that ditto works in a pretty clever way. Very simple and useable live (with just one button).
I’m thinking for accurate looping, you probably want a sample accurate control, so a patch:set rather than a usual control port. But then we’d need to be able to map that to a MOD switch.

I wish I had more time I’d throw it together. It should be pretty simple.


#12

I consider the looping part itself covered by SooperLooper already. What’s actually missing are the following changes / devices to make it possible to build your own multi-channel (optionally stereo) looper:

  • Toggle device: ability to receive an input and switch between different outputs every time the switch is pressed. There should be a mono and a stereo version. This way one could have multiple SooperLoopers and send the input signal to each of them separately.
  • Ability to map a single switch, midi CC or note to multiple targets. This way one could add, say, 4 SooperLoopers and make them all play / record / undo in sync with a single command.

I was actually surprised when I found out these two features weren’t available when I was trying to build - you guessed it - a multi-channel looper.


#13

Would you mind explaining that in different words again, @fzero ? I am not sure what you mean by “switching to different outputs.” You want to record the same loop simultaneously on several loopers?


#14

No, I want to have several loopers running in sync - which would be very easy to achieve if we could assign one switch to start recording/playing on all loopers - and pick which one I want to record to. If we had this feature, something like this would do the job (simple mono example):

With a stereo Switchbox device it would be possible to have 2x2 channels, so a dual stereo looper. The key here is still the ability to trigger recording on multiple devices with a single switch. This way, even though one of the loopers (or stereo looper groups) would record silence until the Switchbox changed, all loopers would be locked to the same loop length. Once the Switchbox changes, the other looper would receive audio and everything would stay in sync.

To make this better we’d need a one-to-n Switchbox device. ToggleSwitch4 looked promising, but it requires a distinct switch for each of the outputs instead one switch to toggle between all outputs.

This is completely useless for our purposes.


#15

A switchbox - with a single knob to change the channels - but with more channels than the current would do the job?


#16

@gianfranco It would be part of the solution, yes. The most important part is still being able to map one switch/MIDI message to multiple controls. This would be useful for several things, not only loopers. Look at how Ableton Live does that for a good implementation example.


#17

Yes. Synced Loopers!

I can work out the signal chain and switching by using my Keith McMillen SoftStep.


#18

Hi @fzero,

Thanks for the detailed info on what you’re trying to achieve, its helping me understand what your ideal workflow would be like. A few more questions if you don’t mind? :slight_smile:

  • What is the maximum number of seperate looper instances you expect to use?
  • What is the maximum recording length you expect from a looper?
  • In an ideal world (leaving aside MOD buttons, MIDI addressing etc): what “commands” would you like your looper to have? (Be creative here - anything is possible! Think about duplicating existing loops, overdubbing, removing certain overdubs when moving to the “next looper” etc, anything at all!)

Cheers, -Harry


#19

For me… I would probably use four loopers. In the DUO I would have three instruments going into it (Guitar, Bass, Keys) and each would have their own looper. I would also want one on the end of my signal chain with all instruments together.

The usual amount of time I record would be one to four measures. I don’t know what that may be in seconds…

For controls I would want two buttons - Start/play/overdub (one button) and stop.

A couple functions I suggest…

  • Slave Loop start/stop with master
  • Free Loop Start - Loop is not synced to master and can start whenever it wants.
    -One Shot or Repeat Play.
    -Sync to external BPM - Such as a Drum Machine.

A very good example would be the Boss RC-505.


#20

Hey @Skydiver, thanks for the input!

To be totally clear - my approach is to build a single plugin, with multiple loops internally synced. I believe this to be a better solution for technical reasons like keeping in sync, and being able to “move” a loop from one looper to another.

To summarize your workflow:

  • 3 instruments (2 external, 1 internal synth)
  • 4 looper clips
  • at least 4 measures (16 bars 4/4) loop time
  • Two buttons for controlling: 1) Start / play / overdub 2) stop

Extras:

  • Slave loop start (I intend to have all loops synced by default)
  • Free loop start: How useful is this really? Do people use it ? I never do… convince me you need it! :smiley:
  • One shot / repeat : yep.
  • External sync: I have no interest in this right now, but I understand the use case. Its technically difficult to achieve, and hence not high on my priorities list. I’ve attempted this before and found it very hard :confused:

Some follow up questions:

  • How do you control slave-loop start vs free standing? Is it set when you record the loop, or configurable at any time?
  • How do you control One-Shot vs Repeat?
  • How many of the 4 loopers need to play at the same time? Just 1, or do you see multiple loops playing?

Thanks!