Mod Duo and midi


#33

First tings first, let me thank the devs for listening to suggestions and criticisms in such a constructive way.

Having program change mapping to pedalboards would be exactly the solution I am looking for. Combined with the other ways of controlling the mod… Well let me just say the options of customization are huge.

I can think for example of creating a pedalboard for each song in the set, and setting up different switchable intra-pedalboard sound flows for the various effects I need during the song. All of them controlled by program changes or control changes.

This way, the silence between pedalboard changes would be moot, and I’d be able to switch to rhythm sound to solo sound without any interruption!

This is just the thing that’s impossible with the gear I’m using now!

Anyways I can’t stress enough how much midi integration is vital. Midi is the de facto ubiquitous control metod in the live (and studio) scenarios.

Please consider that people buying the mod will probably use it in combination with other gear that is controlled by midi. I don’t think everyone will ditch all their devices just because they get a mod.

I myself would not surely abandon my midi controlled tube preamp rack. At the moment it’s chained to my effect racks, so that a click on my controller switches the preset in all of them, setting up my sound. The mod will replace or be used together my existing gear, and the only feasible way to control all of them at once is midi.


#34

Hi everyone.

Sorry to be a bit too much demanding, but since MIDI integration or lack thereof is the biggest motivation why I’m sitting on the fence on ordering the Duo, could I maybe have some anticipations on when (or if) the proposed midi program change pedalboard switching will be implemented?

Thank you very much


#35

We’ll certainly implement changing pedalboards using MIDI messages, we just need a little more discussion on how to do it right.
So it will come in a future update, but can’t say exactly when…


#36

Rest assured that if you get a Duo you’ll get what you’re looking for. MIDI integration is definitely in our roadmap. The more users we have requesting it the quicker we’ll be able to capture the real case scenarios and provide a proper solution. This post here has already started an internal discussion on this matter but as @falkTX said at this point we can’t say exactly when this will be available.


#37

Thank you very much, your answers are very reassuring. Of course I don’t expect the new feature to be implemented overnight. :slight_smile: Even if a beta version of the system comes out before the end of the year, that would be nice enough I guess, and we could help with testing.

In the meantime, can I ask some more questions regarding what is possible at the moment with the Duo, regarding real time live scenario controlling?

Would it be possible right now to plug in my MIDI control pedalboard, that has a couple of expression pedals that send CC messages and use them to control a plugin on the Duo? Let’s say master volume and a wah-wah?


#38

Yes, we have midi learn working right now which does that.
You can control any plugin parameter with any MIDI CC, there’s no limits to that.


#39

Very nice. :slight_smile:

And can the midi out port of the Duo also work as a midi-thru?

i.e. can it just output every midi signal it receives without modification after processing it, so that the Duo can be connected in series with other midi devices and operated with just a midi controller?


#40

If you connect the “hardware” midi input to the output via GUI, it will act as midi-through.
You can also connect a MIDI keyboard to the midi serial output this way too, in case you don’t have a converter. :wink:

There’s a small delay when doing this though, I believe a bit less than 8ms.


#41

Can I also “branch” the input to the plugins, so that i can both pass the midi events thru to the next device in the chain and control the plugins in the Duo?


#42

Of course.
The plugins are loaded in a modular environment, you can connect anything anywhere as long as the connection matches (audio to audio, midi to midi).

Using MOD as a MIDI arpeggiator, strummer, etc is something that already works today.


#43

That’s quite cool!!! :slight_smile:

On a side note, is there a plugin in the Duo that would allow me to replicate the typical '80 random arpeggiator, a la Neverending Story, or Hungry Like The Wolf?


#44

Reading this discussion about MIDI I came up with a question: is it possible to use a controller like the Line6 FBV Express MKii or any other controller that uses the same Control Chain cable of the MOD? The peripheral are open to this options?

Thanks.


#45

I’m also interested in using my Line6 FBV Express MKii with the MOD Duo. Some time ago I changed the FBV’s settings to work as a “normal” MIDI device and for Guitar Rig (Windows) it worked fine.
I connected it via USB to the MOD Duo, all LEDs lit, but “MIDI learn” seems not to work… anyhow nothing happened when I chose this option.


#46

I did some hacks for Music Tech Fest this weekend - PS3, PS4 and Guitar Hero joysticks were working as MIDI devices (notes & cc).
Very soon I’ll incorporate the hacks into the official MOD system.

I guess adding support for those special devices in MOD can happen trough that project.
Not sure if you know how to code or not, but if you do you can try it yourself.
The code I made is at https://github.com/falkTX/nooice

After the main MOD stuff is complete, I’ll see if I can make more special devices work.


#47

Note that is NOT a “Control Chain” port on that device. They use the same jack (RJ45) but its speaking an entirely different language that only line6 amps speak. Many many devices use that same kind of connector. None of them speak MOD’s Control Chain protocol.

To use it with mod you’ll have to use a USB connection. The FBV might not be class compliant, but I’d be surprised if it’s not. Not sure why 120dBRockNRoll had issues, but that’s one possibility. I’m not sure how midi learn is supposed to work on mod.


#48

Did you add it using “Add MIDI device” option on the GUI ?


#49

Thanks, gianfranco! I failed to see the “Add MIDI device” option, now “MIDI learn” with the FBV connected via USB works fine :slight_smile:


#50

Joining the discussion a little late and I will try not to repeat what has already been said. In short, I am a current MOD Duo owner a the single thing that prevents the MOD for being truly useful for me: the pedalboard switching lag is unacceptable for live performance, board-wide presets do not yet exist, and having >10 parallel audio paths just to change a single parameter in an effect quickly explodes CPU-wise.
I recently bought a standard MIDI foot controller (FCB1010) which has 10 footswitches and two expression pedals. It seemed like it should give me a lot of flexibility as far as reconfiguring a single pedal-board using a single button press. However, if I have a pedalboard with ~10 effects, I cannot assign a single button to send a control message for each and every parameter on the board (limitation of this controller).
I see two simple (relatively-speaking) ways of getting out of this situation:

  • Implementing the board-wide presets feature and allowing immediate switching between presets using control-change / program change messages. One critical thing to remember is to include the bypass switch of pedals in these presets - they seem to not be included in the per-pedal presets.
  • Implementing some MIDI plugin that allows translating a single program/control change message into an arbitrary sequence of control change messages. I filed a bug requesting this: https://github.com/moddevices/mod-duo-issues/issues/54.

As far as visual feedback, if one of the MOD screens displayed the value of the currently selected preset, it would help, but as others have pointed out, we’re not going to do any paging during playing, and switching pedalboards within a bank between songs using the on-board buttons is perfectly acceptable.

Another problem I encountered is that I couldn’t figure out a way to explicitly assign a controller number to a parameter. “MIDI learn” sort of breaks when you have a single footswitch sending multiple control messages in sequence.

Last, some people might prefer individual footswitches on their controller to control the bypass of individual pedals on the board. This should be made possible too, again by having an ability to map a single control / program change into a “toggle”.

I cannot emphasize enough how much more valuable it would make the MOD for me. In fact, while there are definitely other things that can be improved, if I was given only one thing to request changing in the MOD it would be this. All the rest is nice-to-have at this point, simply because you’ve already done a pretty great job in all the other areas.

Thanks for being open to feedback!


#51

Hi there, welcome to the forum!

Let’s see…

  1. ‘Pedalboard presets’ is something we have in the plans.
    It’s definitely coming. Probably not for v1.0, but shortly after.

  2. Although a MIDI plugin that transforms messages is already possible today, we cannot use it for MIDI learn/CC handling. The hw MIDI inputs are connected directly to the mod-host without going through any plugins.

Regarding pedalboard switching, very soon you’ll be able to use MIDI program messages.
It will navigate through the pedalboards within a bank, like we have in the hw controller right now, just using midi instead.

The 0.15.0 update allows to use MIDI CC to control toggle/bypass and trigger type parameters.
So you can set bypass/processing for a plugin now.


#52

Thanks for the response.
(1) will likely solve the problem as long as:

  • Presets can be selected via MIDI (currently doesn’t seem to be
    supported for pedal presets).
  • We add an option to treat messages (e.g. note on/off or control
    change) as drivers for binary / trigger parameters so that MIDI
    footswitches can be mapped to control things like bypass, looper
    start/stop/reset, etc.

However, (2) opens the door for pretty much anything, including supporting
different MIDI controllers, sequencing parameter changes, etc. By a very
cursory look at the code (forgive me if this is a stupid suggestion), it
seems like it should be possible (at the mod-host level) to connect plugins
between the “ttymidi:MIDI_in” and the “client:midi_in” ports for any sort
of MIDI pre-processing.

At the GUI level, there can be an additional MIDI-out jack, which is where
the MIDI messages that control parameters go.

Do it make sense? Do you see the merit? If this end up being supported, I
would be happy to take a stab at writing a plugin that manages MIDI-driven
presets.