MOD Duo X


#42

Hello! I’m new to MOD.

I’d like to join in on the platform, but MOD Duo’s latency is just too high for my use.
Is there word that latency will be reduced in MOD Duo X? Any numbers (ms) available?


#43

It would really depend on how complex your pedalboard is.

Could you tell us more about your application ?


#44

Really looking just for a hard minimum latency number on the Duo X. Is this available anywhere? Tried searching, but couldn’t find anything. But the OP states “reduced latency” as a benefit of the Duo X.

I know for the Duo, it’s 8 ms and FFT based effects add additional latency. From my reading of forum posts, seems 3 ms for converters and 5 ms for OS audio server and processing buffer time? ADC/DAC latency of most quality digital products is ~1 ms, and processing could be lowered from dev & higher processing power… or so I’m hoping.

8 ms base latency does not work for my use. It’d work if it was the only source of latency, but I’d want to use it with one or two other digital effect units. And the playback systems I’m using are digital as well, with studio monitors having DSP compensation, or the live mixer being digital. Puts the total combined latency well into the realm of perception.


#45

Hi Guys,
I was wondering the exact same thing. Apart from the considerations above, I am also using a digital wireless with 3-6ms… Although I have no significant problems with my current main setup (AXE-FX II), I’d love a compact travel setup using a MOD or MOD X. I know from experience that total latency in my gear of more than roughly 10ms starts causing problems on stage. Accordingly, I am reluctant to jump on the waggon with the minimum 8ms from the MOD (Idle, right?). What is the total latency of the X with a reasonably complex guitar setup installed?
Best regards,

V<


#46

@VRN
What type of problems do you have on stage when you have more than 10ms latency? Just curious.

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Also offering Duo and Footswitch Combo for $699 thru November. (Message me for this… I wasn’t able to do two different sales at the same time. Will show again on the site starting Tuesday.)
90-Day Return Policy. Free Priority Shipping.
https://tinyurl.com/GES-MOD-DUO


#47

The latency doesn’t change unless you tell it to. Most effects have no latency just like a real pedal board so you can theoretically go through 1000 distortions without any more latency. Even physical pitch shifting pedals like the Digitech Whammy have a little latency, and its similar with the effects on the MOD.

You can in the settings select the larger buffer size which raises the latency but at the same time allows the CPU more time to process, allowing more effects on at the same time. But the latency never changes unless you change that buffersize (or you use effects that have internal latency, which only some do, usually pitch shifters).

Maybe you already realized all that.

I have no idea if the X will have a sufficiently gutsy processor to allow still lower latency though, you’ll have to wait for the MOD team to answer that.


#48

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies. Interesting that (most of) the effects have no impact on the latency. I was expecting a little contribution from each, but then again; if it is “just” applying an algorithm, then it is understandable. And that it is slightly more complicated with pitch effects, which probably first need a little time to “identify” the tone before applying the effect, seems logical too.

@Skydiver: I am in Europe, but thank you for the offer. My main problem is that I often use personal in-ear for my guitar tone since I use a modeller (usually AXE-FX II, but sometime Atomic Amplifire) and cannot rely on having appropriate monitor sound. Not only is it often “foreign” equipment and/or sound tech, but I also move around stage alot. Since my wireless guitar sender introduces some latency (Sony DWZ 3-6ms) as does my in-ear (Mipro same level), there is not a lot of “buffer” before it starts getting annoying, in particular when you hear the drummer or any other co-musician directly. My experience is that above 20ms (nominal) I start feeling out of sync. Maybe it is subjective and/or maybe the nominal data on my previous devices giving me the impression were wrong. I just don’t have time to experiment much and want to have a reasonable expectation of success before investing in new gear.
Best regards,

V<


#49

I think you could get used to that if you always played with this setup. But only if you could make it so, that you get everything over your in-ears. I often see people with only one bud in, that is one of the biggest mistake concerning in-ears (1: you have the bud that’s still in way to loud 2: you have two differing latencies).

But i appreciate you playing with in-ears, most guitar players don’t realize that when they stand in 2m distance from their amp they already have a latency of 5,8ms (at 18°C). You often forget about this when talking about gear.
My point being that you can adapt to the circumstances when they’re constant.

With your setup i add up 2*6+8=20ms for the setup with the duo, that would be within your margin, right?


#50

having just had a note from @gianfranco about the expression pedal, i’m now curious if there’s any news about manufacturing and delivery of the Mod Duo X. :slight_smile:


#51

Coming out still this week :wink:


#52

beauty!
!


#53

I meant a Duo X update :wink:


#54

aha… i’ll look forward to the news!


#55

I almost had a heart attack :slight_smile:


#56

Communication about the Duo X delivery is a bit sloppy …


#57

Hi everyone

I am finally writing to follow-up on your MOD Duo X pre-order.

Since our last update, we have finally received the twice-delayed coreboards from the manufacturer. While this should actually be good news, the delivery of the coreboards came with an unpleasant surprise, which suddenly and at the very last minute put our production on hold.

Every coreboard manufacturer delivers a so-called Board Support Package. Contrary to advertised, the provided Board Support Package for our brand new coreboards turns out to be incomplete. The SPI infrastructure does not have a complete driver set yet.

We are currently doing all we can to not rely solely on the manufacturer, but instead, explore all options to solve the issue independently. Unfortunately, this means we will not yet be able to ship the Duo X in time with the holidays. We have feverishly tried to resolve the issue and at least ship the first few units before Christmas. We couldn’t, however, manage in the short time available and this renewed delay saddens us deeply.

Let me deviate to explain in more detail. Please bear with me, as this can get a bit geeky.

As with almost every modern device that features a computing processor, we are also using ARM CPUs. These units are called SOC - System On a Chip - because they integrate into a single chip all of the peripherals you find on PC motherboards - USB and other interfaces, Graphics Unit and others. In that sense, there is a myriad of different ARM CPUs, each one with a set of features that fits the use case of the product it will be in. As an example, mobile phones processors have a good GPU whereas Internet Routers processors have multiple network interfaces.

All of these features require a driver, a piece of low-level code provided by the manufacturer, that "explains" to the Operating System how to operate the feature.

One of the features we use is called SPI - Serial Peripheral Interface. It is a type of port used to communicate two separate chips and we use it to make the CV interfaces "talk" to the CPU. What we have discovered, once the boards were here, is that the SPI infrastructure does not have a complete driver set.

One of the things that the coreboard manufacturer must supply is a BSP - Board Support Package. This is a collection of all drivers and other tools that enable us to develop software for the board. Because our board is so new and also because some of the SPIs are used for a possible Touchscreen panel - which is officially not supported yet - the manufacturer has not published full SPI support. From our side, since we are doing full SPI usage, even without a Touchscreen we need the supplier to release the missing bit of drivers.

And where does that leave us?

This is blocking us from liberating our boards for production. We cannot risk shipping an entire batch of devices based solely on the hope that, once the software is in place, it will be fully functional. We need to test it thoroughly before kicking off production. At the same time, we cannot just sit and wait for the supplier to release the missing pieces of code so we’re trying to put in place a self-developed driver that will enable us to at least run severe validation tests.

That’s one of the aspects of innovation: navigating in uncharted territories might bring you upon places not explored so far. In our case, though the hardware is there, the driver for this function was not yet created. Since we’re not the coreboard designers, our means to get this done paint a rather tough quest. Yet, we are going through it.

We cannot thank you enough for your ongoing patience and understanding throughout the wild ride that launching the Duo X has been. We, just like you, are more than eager to finally start shipping and see what amazing results will emerge once the Duo X is in your hands. We can guarantee you that the final result will be well worth the wait. Until then, we’ll be back with another update in January.

Best wishes,

Gianfranco


#58

of course! :+1::clap::love_you_gesture:


#59

Thanks Gianfranco! This is exactly what all of us were waiting for I think. Indeed quality should come first, so a bit more patience on our side is not a problem. It would be good to get an update like this regularly.


#60

:+1::+1::+1:


#61

now the fact that you guys are thinking ahead to touchscreens gives me confidence.
i remember what certain friends said when i was waiting for the original MOD and my original patience has been rewarded many times over as i now have a product which is excellent quality, and the wait was worthwhile.
thanks for the update. can i suggest a monthly update would be appreciated by people who are waiting, and reminders are easy to automate. the production details were interesting and i learned something today :grinning: