Send Midi CC after Change Program or Snapshot

Hi!
I’m thinking this scenario: Mod device<-> USB Midi CC controller (example:pedalboard). ok it’s simple and common scenario… but…
Is a bidirectional communication?

If Is MidiCC is mapped on “engage/disengage” effect, on change preset, or change snapshot, is send current midi CC status to midi out? It’s the only way to “syncronize” the current status of Mod to Midi Controller.

I’m thinking something like Ableton live does on Midi Mapping, on mapped items. (bidirectional communication)

If this is not possible is there something like “Line6” command center? Is a set of midi action triggered by loading preset or snapshot.

TKS!

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Hi Marco,

To be simple : no, it’s not !
I’ve asked here the same thing with not much reactions, so I thought it was not very interesting for the community (and it could be difficult to implement…) :

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Hi Rom!
Thks for fast reply. Your provided solution with checkbox is great (should be a default behaviour).
Anyway I don’t think it is a big time-consuming implementation, for example Ableton Live resend modded values to all Output midi devices after a “debounce time”. In other words, it sends midiCC to all Midi OUT devices only if parameter remains on the same value for 100ms or 300ms after modded. With this solution a DAW doesn’t send in “real time” all values but in “realtime like”. This is important for sync Midi Controller with led encoders (behringer controller x touch mini).

If Mod Devices map One to One Midi CC with parameter so there are no problem with current state. The problems should be with if One midi CC maps different values.

Anyway a command center would resolve things for “initial state”, after that you can start your performance and it would be in sync with your controllers. A midi thru with an internal patch link can sync all devices.

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I’d really appreciate that feature too.

In the meantime, if you want to get that functionality and don’t mind the mess, there is a way to map parameters to midiout. Map a CV control to a knob and the mindi plugin.
I’ve used the setbfree because that has more midiout parameters at once.

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It’s not so simple as it sounds. That’s even one of the things that MIDI 2.0 wants to “standardize”. It will always depend on the implementation of the MIDI controller and therefore on the user manual of each of them. So, my guess is that this is possible, but needs to be done on the user side. Users will need to set something like a few mindi plugins that send the data in the correct way (the one that the connected MIDI controller knows how to read) to that MIDI controller. Implementations of this on MIDI controllers are not standard.

That sounds terrible wrong to me. Sorry, but just move the “responsibility for possible errors” to the user, sounds horrible to me. In fact, when you allow to connect MIDI controllers to parameters, you’ve to maintain a list of connected MIDI CC <> parameter anyway. Now, to send feedback for a connected parameter as MIDI CC out, whenever the current value change, will take 15 lines of code. With the solution provided by @Rom so that it is selectable, count another 6 lines to it.
On the other hand, count the time users have to investigate to “collect” a solution for that by implement several cv2midi implementations, . . . every single user, . . every single parameter, . .
I’ve implemented MIDI feedback in guitarix some time ago (maybe 1 or 2 Years, don’t remember), and since then, there was only one single issue with a MIDI controller, which was a home made arduino board. After some talk even this user was able to implement a feedback port for his board and the issue was solved.
Not a single report for a issue with a “standard” MIDI controller was reported to me, the opposite was the case.
I don’t want to sound disrespectful, I know your development team is small, but, drop it down to a missing standard? Nope.

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jon thks for reply!
Your tech point of view is precious and I’ve not said “it’s easy to do” but I referred only to “time consuming” aspect to give you a suggestion

Anyway It’s really true that some devices doesn’t recognize Midi CC in. I remember a “MIDI implementation chart” in '80 '90 devices with “O” and “X”

Example Line 6 FBV2 has MIDI-IN over USB but if DAW send Midi CC to FBV, leds on footpedals doesn’t change them states. Ok but is a limitation of device. (search on the web “FBV Express MKII USB Midi LED Feedback”).

So my idea is “MOD Device try to send values to devices and if MIDI devices has “X” (not implemented in MidiCC implementation chart) is not issue but a limitation of connected device”
But I’m sure that Akai LPD8, Korg Nanokontrol 2 receive perfectly midi CC mapped on switches

Alternative way… is there a way to send a set of midi messages triggered on change program or change snapshot? (Like Line6 command center?)

I’m sorry if you took it wrong, not really my intention. I’m not moving any responsibility to the users. I’m only sharing what is a common issue with this type of things and MIDI. Not only on the MOD platform, but pretty much with any MIDI capable device.

What I’m mentioning is even more based on my experience working (and developing) MIDI controllers and MIDI-able devices than even with MOD. You have examples like the Ableton Push, the Akai Fire, or even the Native Komplete keyboard series that are optimized or only work with certain software and this is one of the main reasons…so the sends and receives are somehow compatible with the device and the feedback is always accurate.

This is exactly my point. I’m also not sure. What I’m sure is that the implementation in many MIDI devices is quite different - used sometimes as a strength of the device with proprietary software. Now, there are certain ways to discover and to go around it. But I’m afraid that it needs to be done on a MIDI controller basis (meaning: pretty much a different implementation per each MIDI controller) and not as a standard that will work with all.

My suggestion on this is that maybe we can trigger some community projects (similar to the tested Bluetooth dongles) and create some presets for the mind that goes along with specific controllers. What do you guys think about that?

Hi jon I’m not full agree with you.
You are focusing too much to “target device” (akai push, novation launchpad…) … don’t worry about that. Please send mapped midi CC. You resolve a lot of scenario!

I suggest “send CC & PC & MIDI NOTE on load snapshot” so you can trigger external pedalboard or Rack effect too (bypass or engage effects).

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So I don’t really understand the request @Marco_Gatto.

This is already possible if you use the infamous mindi. You only need to set the new snapshot to trigger it.

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