Mod Duo and midi


#1

Hi,
I am waiting for my Mod Duo but just recently found out that it is not quite midi ready.
As an actively gigging guitarist I planned on using it with my midi controller.
I was gonna create several pedalboards on the Mod Duo and call them up with my midi controller via…midi :slight_smile:

I fail to understand how that is not possible yet as I see that option as almost…essential and very important for anybody wanting to play a gig with the device.

Yes you can of course use the pedal on your board as a single pedal and try to tap your way from one sound to the other like your usual multi fx. But it’s just such a shame and limits the otherwise endless possibilities if you can’t call upon all your created pedalboards with a single tap on a midi controller.

I’m urging the good guys at Mod Devices to bring this as an option in the next upgrade.

With full midi features this pedal will certainly be the one to rule them all :slight_smile:

Anybody out there planning on using their Mod Duo with midi?


#2

Hi Casio,

You can use MIDI to bind to any controller in a MOD pedalboard already - look at the binding view, and you’ll see “MIDI Learn” listed.

Switching pedalboards is not supported by MIDI messages (as far as I know - perhaps somebody from the MOD team will correct me…) Its not very simple to achieve (multiple controllers? Which messages to use? What is another user has a hard-wired controller, that sends that message? etc…)

The MOD footswitches itself can be mapped to switching pedalboards (create a bank, and look at the extra functionality offered).

To achieve what you want, perhaps you can use the MOD footswitches for switching pedalboards, while using the MIDI controller to control the performance?

Hope that helps, -Harry

PS: To answer your question, yes I use my DUO with MIDI, and its awesome :slight_smile:


#3

Hi Harry,
Thank you for your reply :slight_smile:

I don’t have the Mod Duo yet so I cannot tamper with it or play around with its functions. I had already noticed the Midi Learn function which is awesome. I’m waiting for them to ship the Mod Duo to me in august.

I don’t know how familiar you are with midi but sending different midi messages and assigning information on which button controls what is exactly what it is all about.

I currently use the Peak FCB8N midi controller and use it to control two pedals. The Line6 M9 and also the Nova Drive. And it is as easy as assigning the M9 to channel 1 and the Nova Drive to channel 2 on the midi message. That’s how you know which messages goes where. So there would be no confusion as you mention.

I don’t know how the programmers do it but calling up different pedalboards (scenarios) on the M9 is very easy. Devices with midi normally come with a list of what message to send to call up certain things.

I would imagine that the Mod Duo would have no problem in doing the same thing. Although I am not a programmer so I have no clue on how to do that :slight_smile:
But I’m hoping that the wonderful guys at Mod Devices will figure that out.

The problem with having only 2 buttons to control your…lets say…50 different sounds (pedalboards) is that we singers/guitarists need to call upon a sound (pedalboard) at any given time during a song and more often than not without looking. I for example change from one sound to the next maybe 5-10 times during a song a not always just to the next in line. I need to be able to jump from one sound to the next and then to a different sound right after that.
So having a controller with 12 buttons on demand instead of only 2 on the mod duo is essential.

My current setup is fine but I saw the Mod Duo as perfect for the exact same thing but with the option of much more easily creating the sounds (as the interface is world class) and as a bonus, loading my custom guitar sounds from my DAW into the Mod Duo. Create my wall of sound in my living room :slight_smile:

So that’s why I’m trying to create an awereness about the many guitarist out there (like myself) that need to have ready at least 5-12 sounds at the touch of a button (on a separate midi controller) at any given moment. In hopes of the Mod Duo team will include that feature.

I would imagine that it would not be that difficult to implement. As they seem to have many ohter much more complicated things going on this awesome device :slight_smile:

Well, Im off to my gig for the evening (add me on snapchat: “casiofatso” if you want to see how I use my current midi device).

Over to you kind sirs at the Mod Device crew…Do you have anything going on regarding this issue Gianfranco?

Kind regards
SIR


#4

Hi Casio,

TL;DR: the MOD already allows you to achieve your goal :smiley:

If you want to be able to switch to the various sounds instantly, you want these different sounds inside one pedalboard - not multiple pedalboards.

And switching between sounds in a pedalboard is already possible with the MIDI Learn function, and the various switch-boxes that the MOD currently includes!

Hope that helps, -Harry

PS: I’m not on snapchat - sorry!


#5

OMG

I’m so happy right now :smile:

That, of course, is such a simple and good solution.

Before this answear I was afraid of not being able to use this pedal but now I can just build a super duper pedalboard and control that with midi.

Many many thanks Harry :ok_hand:


#6

For the case of loading previous&next pedalboards we’re thinking of making it possible through control chain.

I imagine an external device a similar layout of the duo, with 2 or 3 single-line text displays and 2 footswitches/buttons to trigger the action. The text display would show the previous, next and perhaps the current pedalboard too.

I’d love to have this myself (and probably you too), so I’ll make sure the team considers it.


#7

This does not sound like something that I could use. As it follows the next/prev layout. That is exactly what hinders a live performance as in my case. I would need ALL sounds available at any given moment. Not only the current sound plus the next and previous. That is kinda my point with the midi controller.
But thanks anyway :wink:


#8

One question…lets say I build a large pedalboard…

I turn on the overdrive with a button on my external midi controller.

Then suddenly I only need a reverb and a delay.

Could I send a midi message to turn off everything on the pedalboard and in the same midi message only turn on a reverb and a dealy?

Sort of like a “kill all” midi command that would be included in the message alongside turning on a reverb and a delay.

I think that would be crucial. Because otherwise if I turn on the overdrive it stays on when I step on a another button on the midi controller to turn on the reverb and delay. Then after that I would perhaps only need a distortion and a pitch shift and then the overdrive, reverb and delay are still on. Right?


#9

Hi,

You have many ways of (thinking about how to) use pedals with the MOD:

  1. Modular
  2. Chained
  3. Both combined

Modular means that you are controlling each pedal in the pedalboard individually. You have full control over exactly which pedal gets turned on or off, and when. You have the most flexibility, but lack quick and easy switching because there are too many switches.

Chained is like having two “sets” of plugins, and you use one control to “select” a chain. This allows a any number of plugins to be connected in a line, but only the whole chain can be turned on or off - no control over individual parts of a chain.

Combined is like building small “chains”, and using the chains in the “modular” way. This provides a balance between the flexibility of a modular setup, but the quick and easy control of the chained method.

Only you know exactly how you want to control your FX - and that’s why MOD will let you set up your pedalboard in the way you want, so you can find the exact balance between modularity and ease of control :smiley:

Hope that helps, -Harry


#10

interesting. So I guess the combined way would be best for me with the midi

So I would build chains. Maybe 15 chains or so, representing 15 different sounds.
Then I would assign a midi command to each chain telling it to turn on.
If I could have the chains mutually exclusive I could solve the “kill all” problem.
Meaning…If one chain is on, no other chain could be on at the same time. Then when turning on a chain (sound) I wouldn’t have to turn off all the other ones.

Would all these chains be within the same pedalboard?


#11

Yep, you get what is called a “switchbox”, which allows you to choose one between many different signals - currently there’s a 1-input, 4-output variant, but it is very easy to create more - if you have a need for a more complex one, please inform. Since this is a “switchbox”, each output is “switched” between, implying that is is mutually exclusive yes :slight_smile:

All these chains are within a single pedalboard yes - this is needed, as the MOD does not switch pedalboards “on-the-fly”, but uses these switch-boxes for that purpose instead.

Hope that all makes sense, -Harry


#12

Ok, Excellent. Then I would need a switchbox that could switch between 15 or so outputs. Of course I would want to be able to have 50 or so outputs but that may be to many right?

Because basically I would want to be able to switch on every sound at any given moment.

This is a good solution but a bit limiting. Calling up different pedalboards is the ultimate solution. Then I would have unlimited options. But while they don´t have that option available this is the next best thing.

Thank you :smile:


#13

how would you call up different pedaboards?
MIDI doesn’t have visual feedback, so how would you know which is pedalboard 1, 2, 3, etc?

this seems rather something that a controlchain device can do.
if prev/next buttons are considered limited, would a list work?


#14

hehe I don’t know the inner workings of the Mod Duo :smile:
And I don’t have any programming skills…sadly :confused:

So I don’t know how the pedalboard “looks like” in this software.
But I would imagine that just as you could control a guitar pedal inside the pedalboard, that you could call up the entire board with a midi message . Which I guess and seem to read from your response is not possible?

Is it not possible to look at a pedalboard as one single unit? So a midi message could turn on that unit?

Although we have many pedals inside the pedalboard, that we could tell the Mod Duo to “load” a pedalboard with a simple midi message?

That way one could construct a cool sound using one pedalboard (chain of pedals) and store it as, for example, your distortion sound. Another pedalboard saved as, for example, your crazy delay sound.

And when you need to switch your distortion on you send a midi message to load that pedalboard. And when you need that delay sound you send another midi message to load that pedalboard.

Kind regards,
-The guy who knows nothing about software but is full of suggestions as a midi user-
:grinning:


#15

I think switching pedalboards is a bit like switching pedalboards in real life. By the time you’ve unplugged your input and output and plugged in the new board, you’ve probably missed your solo :wink:

Which is why many artists have pedalboards that look like this:

This is Tim Maroney’s board and you see he has it hooked up with a bunch of switches that each bypass or turn on different effect loops. This allows him to switch quickly between very different sounds. You can link your midi pedal to control like these loop switches.

The challenge here, (aside from the fact that it can take a long time to get all the connections hooked up just the way you want,) is that the MOD will have to process all these effects all the time because it doesn’t know when you’ll switch them on or off. The CPU can only process so many effects at once, but you won’t know where that limit is until you try because every plugin uses different amounts of CPU and can even vary a lot with different settings.


#16

mmhmm true. I´ve been through all the cycles. First just a couple of pedals. Then with a looper to control them all when they got too many :slight_smile:
Finally settling on a midi controller to simplify all setup and tap dancing issues.
Being a singer and also a guitarist I just don´t have the time to even look at the pedals. So everything has to be at my footstep and ready to go at an instant.

So it boils down to the fact that loading an entire pedalboard would use too much CPU and probably result in latency issues? Better to have all the pedals inside one pedalboard?

It will be interesting to know if there will be any latency problems when I create a single pedalboard that will then contain all of my sounds in chains controlled via switchbox as Harry suggests. Hopefully not.

But there will be an awful lot of pedals inside this single pedalboard because what I am looking forward to is experimenting and creating lots of different sounds. That was a huge part of the attraction to the Mod Duo, this option of being at home, creating many different sounds and then going out to gigs and showing off :slight_smile:

I find it curious that I am the only one mentioning this problem. Singers who also play the guitar are a breed that can’t have just a single pedal with next/prev footswitches. It is so limiting to only have access to the ,next" sound available. Often you go from reverb to distortion to delay to tremolo and then need to go back to reverb but then you are miles away from that reverb in the “next/prev” world. Just doesn’t make sense.

Hopefully someone smarter than me will find a solution to this because I would love to use the Mod Duo and am currently waiting for the August shipment. But in the meantime I will continue to use my midi controller hooked to my Line 6 M9 and Nova drive. They work without latency and do the job but…the Mod Duo looks like it will be miles ahead in design, setup and ease of use. If…it works, that is


#17

So it boils down to the fact that loading an entire pedalboard would use
too much CPU and probably result in latency issues? Better to have all
the pedals inside one pedalboard?

Not latency, just a period where you will have no sound because it is switching boards. Most effects have no latency so you can chain an infinite amount of them in a row without any extra latency.

CPU is what limits the number of effects you can have on a single pedalboard. From the sound of it, you might be just fine controlling the bypass of each effect with your midi controller and then switching pedalboards between songs. That way in each song you can have several sounds, switch between them easily, and then have totally different sounds on the next song.


#18

ok. I understand.

Yup I guess that will be the best option given what options are at hand. It’s not exactly what I was hoping but it will have to do :slight_smile:


#19

Please correct me if I’m mistaken, but from what I read here it seems there’s no easy way of creating a combination of pedals and effects (what multieffect modules usually call “patches”), save them and effectively recall them by using a general purpose MIDI pedalboard?

It seems strange. With multieffect modules, such as G-Major, working with banks and patches is bread and butter of my usual work.

It would be a serious limitation of the device if it were so.


#20

I think there are a few ways to do it. It depends on what you need or what you consider easy. You can do it with routing switches as was suggested by Harry and exemplified in the image I posted, but you can’t do it (currently) through using separate pedal boards and assigning full boards to banks and programs. AFAIK this is because it can take a while to load a new pedalboard and usually when you switch to a different patch you want it to be nearly instant.

I’m not from the Mod team, so maybe one of them can help straighten us out if I’m spreading misinformation.